Self Righteous Ignorance

 

"I know your situations more than you." 

charizardf1 wrote:

Example 2: The war against Tamantha

At this point it's already been established that people have certain biases pertaining to situations based upon history and how you contribute to others. Well during the raving flames of war between tamantha and myself, I was at disadvantage due to my consistent troll antics as well as my goofy overall demeanor in which of course just to clarify to the masses that people were justified. However despite how absurdly ridiculous her claims were as well as no proof ever laid out for the ridiculous claims upon my name, was still entertained just because she's a schizophrenic woman with a sympathetic backstory. Again I'm not faulting people for wanting to side with the crazy woman, but not being able to fully analyze and come to logical conclusions of "ohey this actually doesn't make sense" is once again baffling.

I'll just respond to this since it's literally about me and this is a thread about knowing yourself. You don't think that's a little unfair? In my view I was told over and over to just deal with and people would berate and talk down to me like "What do you even want us to do about it? Just take your word on shit we don't see when we don't even trust you?" are the kinds of things many of my friends told me. I didn't exactly feel like everyone was on my side and that it took a long time before anyone would even hear me out. You were assumed to be right even after you left nova plenty of people were still spreading your side of the story when it came to anything with zero. Many of the people YOU told and turned against me straight up just didn't even bother asking me about it and took you at your word or face value.

I'm not trying to say I'm still upset about it but I do feel I'm misrepresented or you view the situation wrong. Mado didn't like seeing regulars upset and he did try to help me, mitch heard me out and others like rah and fang were kind to me. But just as often many of them sat me down and told me blankly they don't agree with me or won't do what I want to see happen. I don't think you should deny that side of it like it was just everyone against you to side with some "crazy woman" when they were your friends defending you just as much. You left for your own reasons and shouldn't hold me accountable for it.

To start off, I'd like to preface with something. Relying on intuition is human instinct, be it reading tone, body language, vibes, the emotion or anything else. The internet form of this is no exception either. It's not something people do completely consciously, they're hardwired to be that way because you simply can't get survive in this life if you take all that's seen and heard at face value. You have to use your prior experiences, especially ones relating to the person(s) in question, to make an assessment where you don't fall prey to gaslighting and attempts at shifting blame or exploitation. That's something I trust you, yourself, understand well to begin with but I had to put it on the table to make my case.

Now what I think you're doing, Char, is using the fact that it's really hard to locate the reasonable region on the spectrum of delusional paranoia/narcissism and being completely naive to make people who arrive at a conclusion about you look insane and dramatic. That's a pretty common defense tactic to use online and it seems like you're not above using it.

You make 2 very good points that I wholeheartedly agree with, that is the importance of communication in such situations especially between friends and hearing out the other person before arriving at brash conclusions. In a vacuum this is undeniably the mature way to approach such issues as misunderstandings happen and people aren't perfect so everyone is susceptible to jumping to incorrect assumptions driven by negative emotions that cloud their judgment.

So where's the issue then if I think you're right about this? Well, it's the fact that we're not discussing general things with ambiguous details and or giving advice to your friend's friend's friend. We're living this and there's a good reason why I think and explained over and over that this doesn't apply here.

To start off in the duration of what was transpiring during a lot of these times, you, me and everyone involved were feeling wronged in some way so us even being actual friends at that moment was really in question, I believe a lot of us starting wondering about the nature of our relationship in itself and thus trust was pretty shaky. I could not just go to you and convince myself that you're just going to open your heart up to me because treachery was believed to brewing and honesty was far off from guaranteed. But here's the thing, I still did, numerous times, and each time I did it with you, Talon, Spin or many others even those uninvolved in the luna situation in other times what I was mostly met with is vague gaslighting answers and shifting the blame towards opposition. It's completely fruitless and I have tried it times and times over to no avail, so why should I continue doing that? ESPECIALLY, after you already distanced yourself and made it clear that you don't want much to do with me anymore?

I'm kinda losing the thread of my thoughts over this atm so I might come back to add more later but what I'm getting at is you're having unrealistic expectations for such things for two reasons: First is you don't really have the open minded let us exchange info calmly approach that you make us think you'll have upon reaching out to or asking publicy, you just used this post to ad hominem to Tam as a main point of why you were right and she was slandering, no details were provided you just barely touched upon it as you usually do, leading us to assume that you do think we know the deets already thus not needing your insight or that all said insight you possess is surface leveling, not giving us anything of value to work with. So why is that you say over and over that we need to get clarification from you if your clarification is just gonna be shit we already heard from you before?

I'm going to make this really simple for you are you ready


You cannot participate in a community where you consistently bring the people down -- not in my server at least. You aren't banned from our server & nobody harbors negative emotions towards you so this whole thing you have about us hating you bc you're a straight male is you doing exactly what the fuck you just outlined in this post. Take YOUR head out of your own ass & stop putting words in people's mouths & being autistic not understanding wtf is going on

"Have an open mind. Get off your high horse with your bias mindset and train of thought and actually look and intake shit. It doesn't matter what you want to believe you have no choice but to intake the facts given."

These aren't even things you yourself do, Raven...
You have been on your high horse not messaging me back, controlling the narrative, & spreading rumors all because of this & then you have the audacity to say that I stabbed YOU in the back for kicking you from the server because you would make posts generalizing the opinions of people you don't know & do not value

Tamicat wrote:

charizardf1 wrote:

Example 2: The war against Tamantha

At this point it's already been established that people have certain biases pertaining to situations based upon history and how you contribute to others. Well during the raving flames of war between tamantha and myself, I was at disadvantage due to my consistent troll antics as well as my goofy overall demeanor in which of course just to clarify to the masses that people were justified. However despite how absurdly ridiculous her claims were as well as no proof ever laid out for the ridiculous claims upon my name, was still entertained just because she's a schizophrenic woman with a sympathetic backstory. Again I'm not faulting people for wanting to side with the crazy woman, but not being able to fully analyze and come to logical conclusions of "ohey this actually doesn't make sense" is once again baffling.

I'll just respond to this since it's literally about me and this is a thread about knowing yourself. You don't think that's a little unfair? In my view I was told over and over to just deal with and people would berate and talk down to me like "What do you even want us to do about it? Just take your word on shit we don't see when we don't even trust you?" are the kinds of things many of my friends told me. I didn't exactly feel like everyone was on my side and that it took a long time before anyone would even hear me out. You were assumed to be right even after you left nova plenty of people were still spreading your side of the story when it came to anything with zero. Many of the people YOU told and turned against me straight up just didn't even bother asking me about it and took you at your word or face value.

I'm not trying to say I'm still upset about it but I do feel I'm misrepresented or you view the situation wrong. Mado didn't like seeing regulars upset and he did try to help me, mitch heard me out and others like rah and fang were kind to me. But just as often many of them sat me down and told me blankly they don't agree with me or won't do what I want to see happen. I don't think you should deny that side of it like it was just everyone against you to side with some "crazy woman" when they were your friends defending you just as much. You left for your own reasons and shouldn't hold me accountable for it.

I do feel like i kinda overstepped in your case. I just put that on the list due to how I felt back then correlated to the consistency of what I deal with. I have kind of understood that you kind of deal with the same pains of being in the same type of situation in your own way which i can resonate with but overall regarding to the core concept of things pertaining to the slander I still hold that specific sentiment. However it's kind of different between us because I feel like it kind of went both ways with us but that's just how I see it. I'm not saying I was a a pure victim with you it was more so I would shoot myself in the foot while having no good way to clarify things without my title of "clown" or whatever getting in the way of people's judgements.

Regarding to people turning against you that has never been my intent I only ever just like to highlight what I felt like was wrong. I'll admit I don't know the whole exact truths upon that case with Zero and to be honest it really isn't my business(neither was it anyone elses who aren't directly involved) but I only had my own passions toward that situation because of the dejavu. Also I'm not sure where you got that i left for any reasons pertaining to you but you weren't a part of any of that I was only listing consistent moments that had similar feelings to the other moments listed so there's no issues at the moment outside of you being a dumb asian.

Mado wrote:To start off, I'd like to preface with something. Relying on intuition is human instinct, be it reading tone, body language, vibes, the emotion or anything else. The internet form of this is no exception either. It's not something people do completely consciously, they're hardwired to be that way because you simply can't get survive in this life if you take all that's seen and heard at face value. You have to use your prior experiences, especially ones relating to the person(s) in question, to make an assessment where you don't fall prey to gaslighting and attempts at shifting blame or exploitation. That's something I trust you, yourself, understand well to begin with but I had to put it on the table to make my case.

Mado wrote:Now what I think you're doing, Char, is using the fact that it's really hard to locate the reasonable region on the spectrum of delusional paranoia/narcissism and being completely naive to make people who arrive at a conclusion about you look insane and dramatic. That's a pretty common defense tactic to use online and it seems like you're not above using it.

Mado wrote:You make 2 very good points that I wholeheartedly agree with, that is the importance of communication in such situations especially between friends and hearing out the other person before arriving at brash conclusions. In a vacuum this is undeniably the mature way to approach such issues as misunderstandings happen and people aren't perfect so everyone is susceptible to jumping to incorrect assumptions driven by negative emotions that cloud their judgment.

Mado wrote:So where's the issue then if I think you're right about this? Well, it's the fact that we're not discussing general things with ambiguous details and or giving advice to your friend's friend's friend. We're living this and there's a good reason why I think and explained over and over that this doesn't apply here.

Regardless of the circumstance this is basic communications101. it should be applied towards every situation there's no exceptions.

Mado wrote:To start off in the duration of what was transpiring during a lot of these times, you, me and everyone involved were feeling wronged in some way so us even being actual friends at that moment was really in question, I believe a lot of us starting wondering about the nature of our relationship in itself and thus trust was pretty shaky. I could not just go to you and convince myself that you're just going to open your heart up to me because treachery was believed to brewing and honesty was far off from guaranteed. But here's the thing, I still did, numerous times, and each time I did it with you, Talon, Spin or many others even those uninvolved in the luna situation in other times what I was mostly met with is vague gaslighting answers and shifting the blame towards opposition. It's completely fruitless and I have tried it times and times over to no avail, so why should I continue doing that? ESPECIALLY, after you already distanced yourself and made it clear that you don't want much to do with me anymore?

Regardless of where you feel your stance of trust/friendhsip is, the basis still applies. You still follow the proper steps of communication. I actually tried numerous times to confront civil at first but then I started to get annoyed more and more until i leveled down into the whole gaslighting answers and whatever. It's the same with Rowlie. When people just completely wish to dismiss me consistently with no attempts of even trying to even entertain what is being said, then of course I will get a little riled and will lose my own patience. Am i saying how I carry myself is right afetrwards and helps my case? Of course it doesn't but to me it makes no difference if I was to keep trying to speak normally because the result would be the same either way. That's just how I see it personally.

Mado wrote:I'm kinda losing the thread of my thoughts over this atm so I might come back to add more later but what I'm getting at is you're having unrealistic expectations for such things for two reasons: First is you don't really have the open minded let us exchange info calmly approach that you make us think you'll have upon reaching out to or asking publicy, you just used this post to ad hominem to Tam as a main point of why you were right and she was slandering, no details were provided you just barely touched upon it as you usually do, leading us to assume that you do think we know the deets already thus not needing your insight or that all said insight you possess is surface leveling, not giving us anything of value to work with. So why is that you say over and over that we need to get clarification from you if your clarification is just gonna be shit we already heard from you before?

My expectations is literally basic ass communication skills and to me yall don't display that. All I ever get is complete dismissals upon my own situations and no intake on anything I say. I have to repeat myself over and over again as well as just get told over and over again that I'm apparently lying when that doesn't even make any sense lol. Things always do start off calm until I get the same thing over and over again. "Char you don't know what you're talking about we know these things better than you lol you're lying bruh we recall everything much better than you." That's all you people ever say. I could completely get if the situation was pertaining to like a situation that is not directly related to me. For example i don't really trip over the Zero case as much because I am not the main duo in that line. Tam and Zero are the ones that know their situations best and all i can have is an opinion upon recalled events to my knowledge. It makes sense i don't know that situation nearly as well as them and potentially some others. But my own direct moments? Nah that's irritating like you have to be on some type of high horse to ever tell me directly with confidence that you know my own situations better than me. Again you can have an opinion that's fine and dandy but to claim confidence and spread your claims as if it's truth? That's not cool bruh I don't know how else to explain this to you.

Punkin wrote:I'm going to make this really simple for you are you ready


You cannot participate in a community where you consistently bring the people down -- not in my server at least. You aren't banned from our server & nobody harbors negative emotions towards you so this whole thing you have about us hating you bc you're a straight male is you doing exactly what the fuck you just outlined in this post. Take YOUR head out of your own ass & stop putting words in people's mouths & being autistic not understanding wtf is going on

"Have an open mind. Get off your high horse with your bias mindset and train of thought and actually look and intake shit. It doesn't matter what you want to believe you have no choice but to intake the facts given."

These aren't even things you yourself do, Raven...
You have been on your high horse not messaging me back, controlling the narrative, & spreading rumors all because of this & then you have the audacity to say that I stabbed YOU in the back for kicking you from the server because you would make posts generalizing the opinions of people you don't know & do not value

@mado If you can't see yourself as well as how rowlie are being towards me just look at this. This is exactly how yall are being towards me. Look at all this baffling ignorance. Mado you were literally with me during this moment and felt the same exact way. The random coming in, claiming to know what is going on in a situation that was not even his own, and spreading it as factual. This is what is going on right now. Yall (more so Rowlie) is with full blown confidence, claiming to know my feelings, my intents, and my purposes on what transpired during the Luna vs Nova thing. Like for real, YALL ARE NOT ME YOU CANNOT TELL ME. 

But I'll wait for your more depth response because so far I am not convinced at what you are preaching to me.

"@mado If you can't see yourself as well as how rowlie are being towards me just look at this. This is exactly how yall are being towards me. Look at all this baffling ignorance. Mado you were literally with me during this moment and felt the same exact way. The random coming in, claiming to know what is going on in a situation that was not even his own, and spreading it as factual."

Right..

So you have the option to either take what I'm saying at face value or create a narrative around it & ramble like you're insane & you choose to ramble & call me "he" to piss me off (it doesn't work I don't care)

So again, you aren't banned, nobody hates you, & nobody wants to argue with you. You claiming that I don't know what's going on within the general chat of my server is just yapping dude   I saw the entire discussion, for months you had been on this BS, & I kicked you for once again evolving a discussion into generalizing the opinions of people you don't know & cannot speak for & have no business talking about. Unless your entire discussion was a staged event meant to draw a reaction out of me, then what you just said is meaningless Raven




On another note:

This entire thread & pretty much all discussion around the events of Nova from 2014-2020 are meaningless. We were a group of teenagers & young adults. Personally, I don't even feel like I know anyone from Nova anymore, which is okay, but I just cannot understand why anyone besides Tam has anything to say about her getting bullied back then..
Everyone here (presumably) is a better person than they were back then & if you really have to justify what you said all those years ago now, I think you maybe have problems

I really don't like how you simplify Tam as a schizo & honestly, Raven?? She has more control over her emotions & thoughts than you. You write enormous posts about things people have never said & it's worrisome because it's as if you've lost the ability to communicate your emotions; you just label what you say as facts.




It would make a lot more sense for you to say "I'm hurt that I've known you for so long & now you've kicked me from our server after everything we've been through together as friends" than for you to write these HUGE posts. I've told you this before, but you don't listen

WOMP WOMP !!! 

Punkin wrote:So again, you aren't banned, nobody hates you, & nobody wants to argue with you. You claiming that I don't know what's going on within the general chat of my server is just yapping dude   I saw the entire discussion, for months you had been on this BS, & I kicked you for once again evolving a discussion into generalizing the opinions of people you don't know & cannot speak for & have no business talking about. Unless your entire discussion was a staged event meant to draw a reaction out of me, then what you just said is meaningless Raven

@Mado Same exact thing you and rowlie preach. The whole "I saw everything so I know it all" mindset. This is what I mean by seeing doesn't equate to comprehension and Mado you know directly well from experience how that feels.

charizardf1 wrote:

Disclaimer: For the record how I'm conveying my thoughts may seem like I'm presenting myself factual but I am not really doing so. my thoughts are just thoughts and am not placing certainty upon any comments toward individuals. reader's discretion is advised.

First and foremost if you already know you're not capable of taking in information then just refer to my final comment below and be done with it. 

Now if you're staying by to intake the collective fury of which I'm about to put down then enjoy the ride. People overall in general always say this or that about what people dislike among others within the community as well as have their own takes on situations which directs them to their own personal conclusions pertaining to whatever they have witnessed which is fair and valid for people to do. Everyone will always have their own thoughts and opinions to situations and there's nothing ever wrong with that, but I will forever call BS on those that only uphold to their own thoughts and string a narrative of events upon another person's personal experiences. 

To me it's clear as day that most people from what I've witnessed in and out of the community(I'm looking at you Dairy-on) have no clue how to properly gauge and analyze a situation. To give benefit of the doubt maybe most do but are held back from actually doing so because of the massive veiny cocks that people possess upon the egos of their omnipotent einstein level intellects. So I'm going to share my own beliefs on how you're supposed to do so based upon what actually works in my livelihood and actually settles things instead of furthers the flames of war.

Before I do that though let me share my grievances of the baffling performances of the masses. Over the years I've consistently witnessed the same mistakes over and over and over in which nobody seems to ever wish to catch amongst themselves and keep doing because again, massive penises. 

Example 1: 0minization doxxing

There was this meme going around about the 0minization roaming throughout novastormchat causing trouble. The origins of it as well as what all exactly transpired through that time I don't know at all, however there's a moment pertaining my own experience in which I know full heartedly because I mean, it involves me. 

Upon a weekend I had to go to drill and we went to the woods. So I go about my day doing my soldier things and nighttime falls and I setup my little tent in the stormy night and get inside and grab my phone at around 10% or something and check the chat and see everyone going crazy over some situation but I didn't have enough time to gauge anything before my phone died. So next morning after we leave camp and I return somewhere where I could charge my phone I discover that I was banned. Being confused as fuck I try to read back some and I see people keep saying "Char did it Char did it". This was when I eventually ended up dming my confusion and returning. One of rare lucky scenarios where common sense seems to had ended up coming to light but the baffling nature that it could have been me in the first place was insanity.

Example 2: The war against Tamantha

At this point it's already been established that people have certain biases pertaining to situations based upon history and how you contribute to others. Well during the raving flames of war between tamantha and myself, I was at disadvantage due to my consistent troll antics as well as my goofy overall demeanor in which of course just to clarify to the masses that people were justified. However despite how absurdly ridiculous her claims were as well as no proof ever laid out for the ridiculous claims upon my name, was still entertained just because she's a schizophrenic woman with a sympathetic backstory. Again I'm not faulting people for wanting to side with the crazy woman, but not being able to fully analyze and come to logical conclusions of "ohey this actually doesn't make sense" is once again baffling.

Example 3: Luna vs Nova war

One of the most impactful and destructive wars due to a compilation of pure ignorance. My sole involvement was rooted in ignorance and not just for one thing, but multiple.

1. Upon the heightened moment between Mado and Spin, I attempted to de-escalate but once noticed at a mere glance I was accused of picking a side and slandered.

2.After trying to take a small break to settle the moment immediate claims that I'm just trying to start things and have fun with this "war" started spreading.

3.People claim that I am on Spin's side and betraying Novastorm, saying I agree and follow everything he preaches.

Those are only the main claims in which nobody at all even confronted me for initially, only conjured immediately from heresay or upon glance as an outsider to the situation with full confidence. Continuing the self righteous ideologies upon what they solely believe was going on from what they have seen/heard with no real clarity upon the context of the situations.

Example 4: The Straight Male Agenda

Upon my final moments in Luna when I was having a conversation with Mado about something the rampaging Spin randomly came in, took a glance, and made all sorts of claims about how I'm disrespecting women and all sorts of other crazy nonsense when all his claims were completely irrelevant to our conversation which eventually lead to getting kicked. Would not listen to shit and kept going on with their sole agenda of just knowing my own situations more than myself conjuring all kinds of narratives on my name.

Correlation and Inconsistencies

 

So what is the common denominators between all of these moments? They are all moments directly pertaining to me and my own experiences. All of these are moments I'm placed in and being told that they know my own situations better than me. I can understand to a degree to initially suspect/accuse, but to willfully carry on the self proclaimed narratives and consistently fail to assess and come to logical conclusions is just funny to me. Who do some of you people think you are to tell an individual that you know their own experience more than them? 

You glance at a situation, pick a part what you want to believe, then run with that while refusing to even entertain another perspective that doesn't align with your own. That is called Willful ignorance. You can be stubborn about it, dismiss me, pout or whatever but that is what it is because you cannot without a doubt come up to my profile face and just confidently tell me that you know my experiences with pure certainty. Literally baffling.

What I feel people should be doing

Whenever you come across a situation you should first tell yourself this: I DON'T KNOW SHIT! Any situation that is outside of yourself you do not know a thing! You are not a mastermind, a mind reader, nor God himself so stop thinking so highly of yourself and come down to the reality that you aint shit! After that what should you do? Speak to the sources! You don't go around to all the most irrelevant places for information, speak to the main circle! Stop being a dumbass snake thinking you're all cool and swag as fuck slithering through the shadows like a badass intel officer. YOU ARE NOT THAT! 

Have an open mind. Get off your high horse with your bias mindset and train of thought and actually look and intake shit. It doesn't matter what you want to believe you have no choice but to intake the facts given. If you care so badly about wanting to know actual truths how about instead of only gathering shit to twist and fit into your own personal narrative gather all the pieces from every corner and not just what you want to satisfy your own ego of what you want to see for yourself. 

Skip to this if you don't have the capacity to read what's above

TLDR. If you're tired of hearing shit from me then keep your ignorance to yourself because I don't give a damn and will always comment on it. Y'all have the most dumbass practices to situations and the proof is in the history in itself. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. Slay then if you think this procedure of y'alls works so darn well.

It's not a lot less. You have less to go off of, sure, but people have been able to infer one's intentions based on the context, the way it's worded and the circumstances in which the thing was said in as far back as when they would trade mail using pigeons. You want me to treat this as an indisputable thing and I'm just not going to because it's simply not true. People don't always mean what they write, just as they don't always mean what they say. You not believing in intuition despite it being an integral part in our dealings with people is your problem.

We're not explaining "your" situation, we're explaining our situation, it concerns all of us. None of the things you mentioned in this thread are something you experienced exclusively in isolation and all of which had events that led up to them that happened in plain sight for the most part, not by my guess but by the fact that what you use to argue about them are events which occurred inside the chat and witnessed by mean. There's no hidden truth.

Way to miss the point and to show that me conceding on some parts of what you say amounts to nothing because you pick the parts you like and neglect the big picture.

It's not when the other party is actively denying things that are painfully clear and witnessed by all, what should I hope to gain from approaching you to inquire about things? Furthermore, why don't cut to the chase and say what you want to say about your situation, that which will apparently enlighten us on the mystery of your tre intentions instead of talking nonstop about how we don't want to hear em? Could be that you already heard em and didn't buy it and yet you continue to say we never stopped to listen in the first place and that's why we don't agree?

It's fruitless. You'd be lying so hard if you said I never attempted communication in the entire duration of this disputes, all that I ended up getting is denial and answers without any substance as well as avoidance so you're really using this lack of communication thing as a red herring to distract from the actual topic while each time we give you the stage to inform you just scream about being unheard all while we're listening or you lay information that we plain can't logically believe with context in mind and say that we're being ignorant if we don't just take it. It's desperate manipulation.

The dismissal you get is from possibly literal thousands of attempts to get some sort of actual clue from you all end in you describing people's characters in your view or telling things which just plainly clash with what we saw with our own eyes.

I have no problem whatsoever with you having an opinion on anything, Char, and I would've never had a word of an argument with you if that were all it is. However, you take action and urge action to be taken based on those beliefs, it's not a matter of personal perspective anymore. You're trying to move things in the way that suits you and that cannot simply go uncontested.

Please focus on this part as it's the most important.
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If you want communication just get to the point and lay what you think as it is on the chat instead of whining nonstop about us not coming to ask you about stuff, like why does this madness need to take place? Why do you need us to take initiative so you can start informing of your rich perspective? Can't you just begin talking about it without having us arguing about how we should be arguing? All it feels like is an attempt to take control of the situation using gaslighting.

I'm not saying miscommunication and misunderstandings don't ever happen, but so what if they do? You can speak and correct people instead of lecturing them about "basic communication skills"? This carries some major snobby implications to say that a lot of us struggle to meet the lowest standard of holding a conversation. I don't buy it, I don't think that's what's wrong and I think we should lay this topic to rest so we get out of this perpetual loop of telling each other how we should be talking and approaching things instead of actually getting into the subject. If you have something on your mind speak it, that's it.

Thanks for reading.

Mado wrote:It's not a lot less. You have less to go off of, sure, but people have been able to infer one's intentions based on the context, the way it's worded and the circumstances in which the thing was said in as far back as when they would trade mail using pigeons. You want me to treat this as an indisputable thing and I'm just not going to because it's simply not true. People don't always mean what they write, just as they don't always mean what they say. You not believing in intuition despite it being an integral part in our dealings with people is your problem.

If you have ever paid attention to the consistency that goes behind how far off people are when they gauge off of intuition alone on the internet you would understand better how different things are. Also I'm not against one's intuition at all I'm against only trusting intuition alone. Refer to my extended posts with that Dairy individual as an example of just that. You experienced that same thing on the other spectrum where he uses strictly his intuition and you know very well it was wrong.

I think you keep missing the point of going to the core source when you wish to make claims. It's not about taking their word for it, it's about intaking what is being said and using that information to review over and gauge over the situation again from another perspective in order to align and contest against your own bias. This is what investigators do with criminals. It's just an impossible thing to ever think you can know everything without the person who's actually involved upon the scenario. Judgement with only your own sole intuition is a very weak stance and you will only ever have people who align with your agenda to follow it. 

Mado wrote:We're not explaining "your" situation, we're explaining our situation, it concerns all of us. None of the things you mentioned in this thread are something you experienced exclusively in isolation and all of which had events that led up to them that happened in plain sight for the most part, not by my guess but by the fact that what you use to argue about them are events which occurred inside the chat and witnessed by mean. There's no hidden truth.

Yes y'all are. Y'all keep telling my purposes and my feelings and such. That stuff is a part of me. You did not experience my feelings nor did you know my purpose, you assume it. The only things y'all experienced was whatever it was that ya'll were doing/feeling. I'm not out here telling you what you were/not with certainty. During that whole process I've analyzed and changed my mindset on how you were and what you were feeling/going through through each time we actually had gotten to speak and never just sat myself in this 100% mindset of what my opposition was because from my "experience" I could have been set in my ways for thinking that you just was an angry person that didn't like to be contested and that's why everything went the way it did and kept that narrative but guess what I did? I actually would open myself and hear you out and entertain it and reflect/review over things and go "Alright I should update what I thought he was doing/feeling upon that moment because that makes more sense than what my intuition was telling me".

Everyone has a perspective and exclusive aspect to anything they are involved in, especially the ones DIRECTLY BEING CLAIMED UPON. I have to keep preaching the aspect of seeing doesn't equate to comprehension. Do you know what that means? It means that just because you read and see things with your eyes it doesn't mean you will have complete knowledge of things just off that alone. All you can ever have initially is just your own initial bias and until you properly gather the necessary components in order to come to a reasonable conclusion, you cannot claim any type of certainty upon the situation. This is a huge reason why you have a lot less to go off of online because all you literally have is just texts on a screen and maybe some history to go off of. In real life you have body language, tone, and various other variables that makes things a lot easier. Online you don't really have much as much as you want to believe you do.

Mado wrote:Way to miss the point and to show that me conceding on some parts of what you say amounts to nothing because you pick the parts you like and neglect the big picture.

I responded to literally everything. Do you see how I'm responding to each section? If you feel that way I'll review over what I may have missed if you point it out and apologize for if I may have missed the point. I know I can make mistakes on interpreting things sometimes and am completely open to that fact. star-eyed big smile emoji

Mado wrote:It's not when the other party is actively denying things that are painfully clear and witnessed by all, what should I hope to gain from approaching you to inquire about things? Furthermore, why don't cut to the chase and say what you want to say about your situation, that which will apparently enlighten us on the mystery of your tre intentions instead of talking nonstop about how we don't want to hear em? Could be that you already heard em and didn't buy it and yet you continue to say we never stopped to listen in the first place and that's why we don't agree?

I literally do that every time. I'm not a beat around the bush person like Rowlie If I want to say something I just say it directly outfront. It's only after I'm just outright denied with consistency when I start to just be vague because I keep trying to switch things up in attempt to understand how to get you people to absorb anything. Knowing myself though I just am not very good at explaining myself a lot of times so maybe that's where confusions lie? I don't know but regardless I only get to that point because nobody even takes things that are said and entertains them. Like I said before I understand already that being that way doesn't help my case at all and it only gets like that due to me not trusting y'alls cycling procedures of "our memories right, yours wrong". How am I supposed to take yall seriously when yall approach situations in the most obtuse manner? 

Also if y'all ever did listen I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself. Y'all will ask a question, I give my answers and points, then you forget them and be like "hey can you explain what's on your mind?" like a million times. It's a clear indicator that y'all do not intake a single thing being said. Y'all just keep sticking to the same narrative because yall are set on it and just brushing off anything I say as immediate nonsense because you don't care to take it seriously because of your powerful intuitions. In the same way Dairy-on wouldn't be able to repeat any point I have said to him pertaining our situation, yall display the same manner by doing that same thing.  

Mado wrote:It's fruitless. You'd be lying so hard if you said I never attempted communication in the entire duration of this disputes, all that I ended up getting is denial and answers without any substance as well as avoidance so you're really using this lack of communication thing as a red herring to distract from the actual topic while each time we give you the stage to inform you just scream about being unheard all while we're listening or you lay information that we plain can't logically believe with context in mind and say that we're being ignorant if we don't just take it. It's desperate manipulation.

I'd like to retrack what I said and rephrase what I meant. The forms of communication that were attempted in the past were flawed. You yourself said so about yourself whenever we was able to converse and reflect on the events. And just to also put it out there I'm not saying your the sole miscommunicator. The whole ordeal back then was a huge cluster of messes compiled into one. I feel like (pay attention to my phrasing, very important for pinpointing uncertainty) your memories are lumping me with the conduct of the others. While others may have been avoiding accountability and denying certain things, I was in another notion. There has been nothing I have ever not held myself accountable for. I was the first to immediately catch myself and put out there my own wrongdoings of things I actually did wrong while also attempting and trying to clarify certain things people were not up to date about. 

I'm too lazy to go back and look over the levels of substance both ends had upon the moment so I'm not really going to touch that much and just give my take that I felt like both properly barely had much. All I remember is that I indeed didn't avoid a single thing and addressed every concern pertaining to at the least myself. However if you wish to bring up avoidance that is something that your end definitely has done and admitted to upon the moments of reflection in the distant future after the events. 

If I'm by some means unconsciously going about things in a manipulative manner then I apologize. Sometimes manipulative actions must be utilized in order to move forward on things. Rowlie uses these kinds of tactics all the time openly. It's not particularly a bad thing. psychological manipulation is how you can shift people's minds to go about a direction they normally wouldn't go towards themselves in order to see things differently. But overall I'll reflect on how I could have been manipulative and try my best not to do that. All I'm trying to do is explain things and attempt to get people to understand reasoning at the end of the day. No ulterior motive outside of that.

Mado wrote:The dismissal you get is from possibly literal thousands of attempts to get some sort of actual clue from you all end in you describing people's characters in your view or telling things which just plainly clash with what we saw with our own eyes.

Just like I said in the last section it feels like y'all immediately dump out anything I say but once again it could also stem from my lack of being able to properly explain myself. I'm not sure what exact clue you all are looking for. You're supposed to take what is said and review over shizz to gauge if it could actually be a possibility. I could be wrong but I really just think y'all just take what I say, compare it to your memories, then give your judgement off of that alone because every single time I give a take, yall bounce back to the same exact conclusion on events. No updates at all just "that doesn't correlate to my database so it's invalid".

Mado wrote:I have no problem whatsoever with you having an opinion on anything, Char, and I would've never had a word of an argument with you if that were all it is. However, you take action and urge action to be taken based on those beliefs, it's not a matter of personal perspective anymore. You're trying to move things in the way that suits you and that cannot simply go uncontested.

There's a consistent miscommunication on the conception of what you think I'm going for in this. I'll say it again that I'm not telling you to take words or beliefs on things, I'm saying you need to utilize those things in addition to everything else in order to properly gauge a situation. You don't solely use intuition nor do you solely use words used at face value/beliefs. It's a whole process it is not just a simple glance and know or listen and know. The most accurate way is by gathering all intel necessary or else you put yourself in the trap you're in right now. Y'all have conditioned yallselves to this narrative based off of this intuition and now it's a lot harder for you to take things because in your mind it's become a certainty. Which to be honest during real time of typing this it makes me understand more how it's possible for yall to be so resilient toward a situation that seems so clear to me due to being me myself. 

Mado wrote:Please focus on this part as it's the most important.
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If you want communication just get to the point and lay what you think as it is on the chat instead of whining nonstop about us not coming to ask you about stuff, like why does this madness need to take place? Why do you need us to take initiative so you can start informing of your rich perspective? Can't you just begin talking about it without having us arguing about how we should be arguing? All it feels like is an attempt to take control of the situation using gaslighting.

I'm not saying miscommunication and misunderstandings don't ever happen, but so what if they do? You can speak and correct people instead of lecturing them about "basic communication skills"? This carries some major snobby implications to say that a lot of us struggle to meet the lowest standard of holding a conversation. I don't buy it, I don't think that's what's wrong and I think we should lay this topic to rest so we get out of this perpetual loop of telling each other how we should be talking and approaching things instead of actually getting into the subject. If you have something on your mind speak it, that's it.

Thanks for reading.

Already touched on this above. If you don't wish to see the whining then actually move like you are actually intaking what is being said. There would be no whining if i could see that you are processing what is being said and actually taking the measures to update yourself and open yourselves to the possibility of different narratives. 

You're right I don't need any of you to take initiation, it's just an expectation of what I thought mature people could do. Under normal circumstances when somebody has information from an outside perspective the common curtesy is to go to the source and gain the proper clarity upon the situation to gauge off of. If I have to seek out and address to people going around spreading nonsense on my name what does that say about others? It's the opposite of me taking control. Me taking control is the exact solution you're trying to emphasis. My initiation is basically me having to put myself in the foremost and try to control the situation of what is going on pertaining the spreading of my name. Somebody else taking their own initiation by curtesy basically involves me to just grant my case then from there they go about their business on assessment to come to their own conclusion. I'm not taking any sort of control in that type of scenario. Or maybe you mean that I'm taking control in the sense of how things should be handled? In that case all I'm doing is sharing how I feel makes more sensed based off how I've seen successful interactions go.

If you have truly paid attention to every interaction I've ever had pertaining to clearing myself. It always starts with my trying to clarify and correct, then it goes into people just dismissing and being self righteous, then after that it goes to me addressing the glaring flaws of how everything is going does not make sense. I don't just start off gung-ho saying "yall don't know how to communicate". Do you ever take into consideration that comments like that stem from somewhere instead of just blankly seeing just that comment alone by itself? 

Like I said before to Rowlie if people don't like being confronted pertaining my own events, then don't speak on it. Have the foresight of if you wish to place an ignorant claim on my name that I will respond to it and stop yourself because regardless I will always respond to these types of things. I probably have one of the best histories amongst people of holding myself accountable for things I actually do and don't care at all about admitting to shameful actions that I have partaken in. So I take pride in defending myself when I know certain things said against me are not true.

Hopefully I did not miss anything or misinterpret. If i did I apologize and am completely open to taking back and reforming statements.

Something important I really wanna point out is that I'm almost completely talking about the period in which those events you're mentioning happened. I don't feel like there has been much miscommunication as of late and I think I'd be perfectly comfortable reaching out to you inquire about the reality of things nowadays compared to back then. All of this was really to address what transpired and how I felt and what I believed about you at that point, or at least the parts of it which I felt were justified because as you know we did talk to settle our dispute and everything is water under the bridge by the looks of it. Still disagree with you on many things but I think we're at a point where this disagreement isn't an active detriment to the community's peace so I hope you're not taking all this as me having some underlying disliking towards the way you are, Char. I really am glad we're back to the way we were before and in general I think any animosity that existed is nearly all gone. The point of my replies and the conversation back on Discord is really to explain why the approach we took with Luna and you at some parts wasn't illogical and that you'd expect most people to react that way given the circumstances at hand.

Mado wrote:Something important I really wanna point out is that I'm almost completely talking about the period in which those events you're mentioning happened. I don't feel like there has been much miscommunication as of late and I think I'd be perfectly comfortable reaching out to you inquire about the reality of things nowadays compared to back then. All of this was really to address what transpired and how I felt and what I believed about you at that point, or at least the parts of it which I felt were justified because as you know we did talk to settle our dispute and everything is water under the bridge by the looks of it. Still disagree with you on many things but I think we're at a point where this disagreement isn't an active detriment to the community's peace so I hope you're not taking all this as me having some underlying disliking towards the way you are, Char. I really am glad we're back to the way we were before and in general I think any animosity that existed is nearly all gone. The point of my replies and the conversation back on Discord is really to explain why the approach we took with Luna and you at some parts wasn't illogical and that you'd expect most people to react that way given the circumstances at hand.

If this is only purely discussing about the thought processes that was going on back then then I concede. This started because of current ideologies pertaining with thoughts of certainty of past events. This was why I felt like you and rowlie were not speaking about the same things. Like I said before I'm  not contesting about how y'all were feeling back then as well as thought. I agree entirely about initial accusations/thoughts y'all could have had of me. So in that point we both agree. My only issue was that people like Rowlie still want to claim certainty of my own stances despite ignoring/dismissing intel that doesn't fit his own narrative. Unlike you who had eventually confronted me at some point, Rowlie never has. Not saying he's obligated to but the correct way of going about knowing things is speaking to the source at hand. 

And to clarify again for the millionth time in case it gets misread again, he doesn't need to take my word for things, however he should intake what is being said, look over all other forms of intel related to events in order piece by piece, and put it all together to formulate a valid conclusion. This is how you obtain accurate analysis on situations. It takes out all bias and focuses strictly on evaluating the situations. You don't need to trust people or think about relationships in order to go through all this. It's about taking information and comparing which i feel he definitely does not do. Of course at this point and time unless people wish to spend a lot of time to dig through past events or give benefit of the doubt on people's collective memories of the step by step on events that transpired, he has no way of being able to go through this process anymore. That's why it's important for people to go through things properly upon the moment or else it gets lost in time and people only have their intuitions to base off of.

Overall to me this isn't some big issue that will sever the ties of many people. I simply saw something I know was false and spoke against it. I will always speak against what I feel isn't right and if that's somehow an issue then people shouldn't bring up events without some kind of foresight that there will be retaliation.

You keep bringing me up constantly, despite me explaining my stance and why in Novastorm. You have brought my name up on this forum post 10 times and keep explaining how I'm not just taking your word for it, but you haven't actually given a good reason for why I should believe you over my own memory of events and the evidence that validates what I know took place.

We are talking about events that took place over 3 years ago Char, not present times. Your actions back then say one thing, but your words today say another. I don't want to listen to blatant lies. It's just gaslighting, manipulative and quite honestly very sad. People have memories of what went on back then and I have ways to look back at what was said to figure out what really was going on.

This all started from and stems from you taking issue with me because I said you were enjoying the conflict back then due to things such as when you were roleplaying it was a "war", talking about bringing Mitch and Mado "to their knees" and said it triumph that "we killed Novastorm" in Luna when Novastorm was dead. I just don't believe you typed out these things with a miserable straight face Char. These are the sorts of roleplay things I believe you did out of amusement. A common theme in your roleplaying is darkness, conflict and war, all themes that you clearly find exciting. You claim you don't find any amusement in these kind of dramatized war roleplays, but you still conduct them to this very day and I refuse to believe you do it without gaining anything out of it at all. The fact you blew up as much as you did and got so angry about this is the most perplexing thing about the whole situation to be honest. I gather that people roleplay for fun, so I find it very hard to believe you're the only specimen in human history that has partook in roleplay without any motivation at all. If you didn't get any amusement from it then clearly it wasnt a joke and it wasnt amusing for you... it was just something you did 100% seriously with a straight face. Is that what you're trying to tell me then???

I feel as though you are adamant that I should just take your word for things because my memories of events / evidence from the past is invalid as I didn't interview you several years later. It's just a ridiculous argument to be honest and does not wash with me.

I don't hold any ill will against you or anything, but I just can't simply take your word for things just because you feel your present opinion trumps peoples memories of the events that took place and the physical evidence that proves it. I find the whole way you reacted really strange to be honest. I'd understand if I said outrageous lies about you or something, but this forum post really did just get posted because I said you took amusement out of roleplaying when the Lunastorm stuff was going on... Like come on man who're you trying to fool?

Just going to add that its nobody's fault but Raven's for bringing people from Novastorm into the Luna server in the wake of 2020 & the only reason Rowlie has anything to say in this post above or at all about anything is because you made it his business


Rowlie legit has no stakes in any of this (that I know of) except for the shit talk in Luna


You should go back to your post about becoming a millionaire & figure out why the fuck you cant focus on that instead of being a pussy punk broke loser bitch on the internet

Anybody with hands & ears would beat the dog shit out of you for saying the pathetic things you do & you totally revel in it so it's funny that you're trying to psychoanalyze Raven for being a troll about "Nova wars" when all you do provides people with the conclusion that you're either a psychopath or some really bored dude with no life & no friends

Punkin wrote:Just going to add that its nobody's fault but Raven's for bringing people from Novastorm into the Luna server in the wake of 2020 & the only reason Rowlie has anything to say in this post above or at all about anything is because you made it his business


Rowlie legit has no stakes in any of this (that I know of) except for the shit talk in Luna


You should go back to your post about becoming a millionaire & figure out why the fuck you cant focus on that instead of being a pussy punk broke loser bitch on the internet

Anybody with hands & ears would beat the dog shit out of you for saying the pathetic things you do & you totally revel in it so it's funny that you're trying to psychoanalyze Raven for being a troll about "Nova wars" when all you do provides people with the conclusion that you're either a psychopath or some really bored dude with no life & no friends

It's not like you have a horse in this race either. I don't understand the purpose of your interference.

Mado wrote:It's not like you have a horse in this race either. I don't understand the purpose of your interference.

he seems upset with me for some reason but I can't even remember what I did to the man

Buz wrote:

Mado wrote:It's not like you have a horse in this race either. I don't understand the purpose of your interference.

he seems upset with me for some reason but I can't even remember what I did to the man

That's also funny that I have to jog your memory considering what you just said above

"We are talking about events that took place over 3 years ago Char, not present times. Your actions back then say one thing, but your words today say another. I don't want to listen to blatant lies. It's just gaslighting, manipulative and quite honestly very sad. People have memories of what went on back then and I have ways to look back at what was said to figure out what really was going on."

You don't remember messaging Naid unprovoked & being a douche not even a year ago? You don't remember writing a huge blog post calling me a "tranny" & making a shitty caricature of my friend at the time who had nothing to do with any of this? You don't remember telling me you hope my cat dies & that you're glad my guinea pig died? (RIP Bojangles)

There's people that are afraid of me speaking up to you because I lost my sister to suicide & you're such a shitter that no one puts it above you to not use that as more ammo to be the kind of person that you are online. You seriously have NO right to talk to Raven the way that you just did above when all you do is set the bar for Nova lower & lower & get away with it dude

Punkin wrote:

Buz wrote:

Mado wrote:It's not like you have a horse in this race either. I don't understand the purpose of your interference.

he seems upset with me for some reason but I can't even remember what I did to the man

That's also funny that I have to jog your memory considering what you just said above

"We are talking about events that took place over 3 years ago Char, not present times. Your actions back then say one thing, but your words today say another. I don't want to listen to blatant lies. It's just gaslighting, manipulative and quite honestly very sad. People have memories of what went on back then and I have ways to look back at what was said to figure out what really was going on."

You don't remember messaging Naid unprovoked & being a douche not even a year ago? You don't remember writing a huge blog post calling me a "tranny" & making a shitty caricature of my friend at the time who had nothing to do with any of this? You don't remember telling me you hope my cat dies & that you're glad my guinea pig died? (RIP Bojangles)

There's people that are afraid of me speaking up to you because I lost my sister to suicide & you're such a shitter that no one puts it above you to not use that as more ammo to be the kind of person that you are online. You seriously have NO right to talk to Raven the way that you just did above when all you do is set the bar for Nova lower & lower & get away with it dude

I know this post isn't directed at me but for that bit where you claim Rowlie simply gets away with things I'm going to need proof for what you're saying if you want any of it to be taken seriously. Provide screens for what you're claiming about him mocking your pets.

The parody story thing was a pretty tame response to the mockery that was happening on the other side and it surprises me to this day that you lot act appalled about it after what you were witnessed saying in your newly found stronghold at that point in time.

I sent a message to Naid? Just a message you say? That doesn't sound that bad... A huge blog post? You mean the satire Luna vs Nova story that everybody loved? (including your irl friend)

You sure do seem angry about something you had no part in... It's almost as if you've been a crazy lunatic stalking these forums for years despite not being allowed in the community anymore. It really must suck you're not allowed in Nova so you just sit on the outskirts not even able to see what people are actually saying there.

You know it's actually crazy you have brought that up here because I've never said a word about that. Come to mention it I have a memory of people talking about your dead sister like it was some sort of acceptable topic of conversation, I was one of the few people saying we shouldn't be talking about it because it's a cruel topic of conservation. You wouldn't have seen that though, being banned from Nova and all.

If you have actual evidence of me saying this about your cat and guineapig I'd love to see it, otherwise I'm gonna call bs on that... Everyone knows I have a soft spot for animals. Besides if you're talking about your cat Pumpkin that must have been a recent death because that cat was still alive when you were in Novastorm and I haven't had any contact with you other than when you randomly asp out at me on the forums unprovoked like some sort of lunatic.

Buz wrote:I sent a message to Naid? Just a message you say? That doesn't sound that bad... A huge blog post? You mean the satire Luna vs Nova story that everybody loved? (including your irl friend)

You sure do seem angry about something you had no part in... It's almost as if you've been a crazy lunatic stalking these forums for years despite not being allowed in the community anymore. It really must suck you're not allowed in Nova so you just sit on the outskirts not even able to see what people are actually saying there.

You know it's actually crazy you have brought that up here because I've never said a word about that. Come to mention it I have a memory of people talking about your dead sister like it was some sort of acceptable topic of conversation, I was one of the few people saying we shouldn't be talking about it because it's a cruel topic of conservation. You wouldn't have seen that though, being banned from Nova and all.

If you have actual evidence of me saying this about your cat and guineapig I'd love to see it, otherwise I'm gonna call bs on that... Everyone knows I have a soft spot for animals. Besides if you're talking about your cat Pumpkin that must have been a recent death because that cat was still alive when you were in Novastorm and I haven't had any contact with you other than when you randomly asp out at me on the forums unprovoked like some sort of lunatic.

Why is it that I need to provide screenshots of something you said to me in a fast-paced chat from 4 years ago

Do you actually believe I just made this up & have been saying it over & over for the past 4 years? I know you like to make me out as someone incapable of telling the truth but that's just ridiculous that the only way for my words to have any meaning is for me to have screenshots of these exact moments

You wanna talk about gaslighting? THAT is gaslighting; I very specifically remember that exact incident & multiple others but the only way for you to admit that you said something like that is for me to have the equivalent of a tape recording from a snippet of a conversation YEARS AGO. If that's what it comes down to & the only way for you to just own up to it is by me wiping your nose in the shit & piss then we're done here

You call me a stalker but then you randomly add Naid who hasn't spoken a word to you & didn't even know it was you sending a request after YEARS of no contact just to send a photo you saved of her LOL

Did we ever find out who it was pretending to be me? I feel like we all just forgot that you guys accuse me of things without having evidence, but really the evidence only matters when it needs to be stacked up against you because that was honestly so funny that Mado showed me some random screenshots of someone trying to impersonate me horribly & it working

You guys just love holding me & other people to standards you absolutely cannot keep up with & it shows because your feelings are hurt from seeing people talk shit about you in Luna after everything that happened but you actually talk shit about me on a daily basis in Novastorm (which I know for a fact lol). Lie about that!  I dare you!  Because I've seen the discussions you guys have & the circlejerk. You talk about me every other day like I'm some kind of celebrity or historical figure it's WILD LOOLLL

Right I see. So what you're basically saying is you have no evidence at all and just want people to take your word for it? Sounds familiar... The cat thing is genuinely new to me and you've only started saying it today. I don't know how you can pretend you've been saying it for "years", when this is the first time I've ever heard of it. As far as I knew your cat Pumpkin was still alive. You can keep lying and putting words in my mouth if you like, but nobody is going to believe you.

You've been stalking these forums for years on the outskirts of the community that you're no longer welcome to be a part of. Even Drago has moved on from this place after leaving, why can't you? Me sending a single message to Naid out of mirth (one time) isn't comparable to the sorry excuse of whatever you've been doing here for the past 4 years.

It's convenient you didn't even reply to what I had to say about the sister thing, but I'm not surprised. It clearly doesn't fit your narrative so you just ignored it and bring up other unrelated things.